Dear all,
This is a very interesting discussion spanning all the feelings that I have about this issue. I agree that we humans are selfish and altruistic at the same time, and we are intelligent. We are not hard-wired. When we manage to direct our actions according to our insights and not only according to our instincts, then we liberate ourselves and become free humans. So much for the philosophy, moral ...
I try to live energy-conscious, have solar power on the roof, etc. Yet, I am not sure what the best way of actions is. I also agree with Malcolm that we need to give examples and live according to our insights and beliefs, even against all odds. But I am also afraid that some of the regulations and actions against climate change may be well meant, but sometimes counterproductive. Thus e.g. German local city governments forbid driving on certain local roads, causing the drivers to make huge detours and actually causing much more pollution.
As scientists, we we should not only work on the solutions, but also analyze properly and quantitatively how much certain activities contribute to CO2 and global warming in order to develop the most efficient strategies for avoidance.
This brings me to my main point, why I thought I should reply. I now read Matthias' editorial where it is stated that 'a single flight to a conference in Europe ... produces about 500- 1000 tons CO2 per person.' I found this number a bit hard to believe and checked the following article:
Ritchie, H. and Roser, M.: Which form of transport has the smallest carbon footprint?, Our World in Data, 2024. https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint
This gives the following numbers for CO2 emission in gram per kilometer traveled per person:
| Entity | Year | Transport emissions per kilometer travelled [g] |
| Domestic flight | 2022 | 246 |
| Diesel car | 2022 | 171 |
| Petrol car | 2022 | 170 |
| Short-haul flight | 2022 | 151 |
| Long-haul flight | 2022 | 148 |
| Motorbike | 2022 | 114 |
| Bus (average) | 2022 | 97 |
| Bus (local London) | 2022 | 79 |
| Plug-in hybrid | 2022 | 68 |
| Electric car | 2022 | 47 |
| National rail | 2022 | 35 |
| Tram | 2022 | 29 |
| London Underground | 2022 | 28 |
| Coach (bus) | 2022 | 27 |
| Ferry (foot passenger) | 2022 | 19 |
| Eurostar (to Paris) | 2022 | 4 |
Accordingly, I calculate for the following flights
Basel to Madrid (2375 km, as domestic): 1168.5 kg
Frankfurt to San Francisco (18313 km, long-haul): 5420.7 kg
This is much lower than the indicated 500-1000 tons CO2 per person for European flights. It is interesting that car travel is comparable to short-/long-haul flights in CO2 per km/per person. Of course rail, boat and bus is the best, next to walking.
Please correct me if anything is wrong with my numbers. I certainly don't want to belittle the carbon emissions from flights.
Best wishes
Stephan
On 10/26/24 15:19, "Tycko, Robert (NIH/NIDDK) [E]" (via nmr Mailing List) wrote:
Because we are scientists, we are supposed to have the ability to invent and develop technological solutions to this sort of problem. Some scientists are doing this (carbon sequestration, fusion energy, better solar cells, engines and batteries with better efficiency, etc.). We can also reduce our own unnecessary travel. My wife Melanie Killen, who is a psychologist who studies social and moral development, does not believe that humans are totally hardwired to be selfish. They are also hardwired to be empathetic and altruistic, depending on the circumstances. The same is true of non-human primates, as shown be experiments as well as observations, so these appear to be evolved characteristics. -----Original Message-----From: nmr-request@services.cnrs.fr <nmr-request@services.cnrs.fr> On Behalf Of "Jeschke Gunnar"Sent: Friday, October 25, 2024 2:04 PMTo: Malcolm Levitt <mhl@soton.ac.uk>Cc: Jeffrey Allen Reimer <reimer@berkeley.edu>; Matthias Ernst <nmr@services.cnrs.fr>; Arno A.P.M. Kentgens <A.Kentgens@nmr.ru.nl>; Meier Beat H. <beme@nmr.phys.chem.ethz.ch>; anja.bockmann@ibcp.fr; Paul.Schanda@ist.ac.atSubject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [NMR] travel and Groupement Ampere Hi Malcolm, Is there not a touch of selfishness there too? Yes, I am selfish. I believe that humans (indeed, all life forms) are hardwired to be selfish. I did not want to tell others that they are wasting their time. I just wanted to explain that I, personally, do not believe in this course of action. Who am I that I would know better than you? That we can have different opinions means that the answer cannot be computed. In the end this means that it is a matter of personal taste. Kind regards Gunnar --- Der Schlaf der Vernunft gebiert Ungeheuer (Francisco Goya) Prof. Dr. Gunnar JeschkeETH ZurichDepartment of Chemistry and Applied Biosciences Vladimir-Prelog-Weg 2CH-8093 Zurich Switzerland http://www.epr.ethz.ch/________________________________________From: Malcolm Levitt [mhl@soton.ac.uk]Sent: Friday, October 25, 2024 11:12 AMTo: Jeschke GunnarCc: Jeffrey Allen Reimer; Matthias Ernst; Arno A.P.M. Kentgens; Meier Beat H.; anja.bockmann@ibcp.fr; Paul.Schanda@ist.ac.atSubject: Re: [NMR] travel and Groupement Ampere Hi Gunnar Of course there are no simple solutions. It’s not an either-or choice. We need to reduce energy consumption as well as adapting to the big changes that are inevitable. Every small reduction in energy consumption makes adaptation easier and less costly. None of these small changes leads by itself to a measurable change. The precession of an individual spin does not give a measurable signal in conventional NMR. So is an NMR experiment pointless? The time is now here where the scientific evidence demands radical changes in the organisation and reward system of human society. Whatever happens adaptation will be extremely painful for large numbers of people. Huge invested powers oppose even the smallest of changes and have command of 99% of politics and media. Trust in scientists is immensely important. We are asking people to sacrifice on the basis of scientific evidence. How much hope for that if not even scientists themselves will make the smallest of changes? You say “ Actions that have no measurable effect may be good for ones own conscience … no benefit beyond that”. You may be right. I think we will only be able to judge this in hindsight. Much the same was/is said about anti-slavery campaigners, women’s vote activists, anti apartheid activists, or (now) anti-genocide campaigners. We may never be sure. But how sure are you of your own motivations in telling others that they are wasting their time? Is there not a touch of selfishness there too?All the bestMalcolm On 25 Oct 2024, at 06:06, Jeschke Gunnar <gunnar.jeschke@phys.chem.ethz.ch> wrote: CAUTION: This e-mail originated outside the University of Southampton. Hi all, artificial intelligence is exciting. AI has an extreme energy hunger. Flying contributes to global warming. Meeting people in person improves social cohesion, which is deteriorating in these time. Social cohesion is very important in times of crisis. There are no simple solutions. Adaptation to climate change is far more likely to work than attempts to avoid climate change. Actions that have no measurable effect may be good for ones own conscience. Personally, I do not see advantages beyond that. Kind regards Gunnar --- Der Schlaf der Vernunft gebiert Ungeheuer (Francisco Goya) Prof. Dr. Gunnar JeschkeETH ZurichDepartment of Chemistry and Applied Biosciences Vladimir-Prelog-Weg 2CH-8093 Zurich Switzerland http://www.e/pr.ethz.ch%2F&data=05%7C02%7Crobertt%40niddk.nih.gov%7C69303922bdad4b45322f08dcf574d83d%7C14b77578977342d58507251ca2dc2b06%7C0%7C0%7C638655129400148503%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XehFW5bL9ocUHuKP8xm7foZxfBWr60YJwaWfWQzBl%2BQ%3D&reserved=0________________________________________From: nmr-request@services.cnrs.fr [nmr-request@services.cnrs.fr] onbehalf of Malcolm Levitt [nmr@services.cnrs.fr]Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 11:16 AMTo: Jeffrey Allen ReimerCc: Matthias Ernst; Arno A.P.M. Kentgens; Meier Beat H.;anja.bockmann@ibcp.fr; Paul.Schanda@ist.ac.atSubject: Re: [NMR] travel and Groupement Ampere Hello JeffI made the same decision about 5 years ago. Max one long haul flight a year and train wherever possible. Since my wife’s family is in India I have not come to your side of the pond for a long time. I’m making an exception next April when I will come to the ENC and take the opportunity to visit some (non NMR) old friends. It’s a drop in the ocean of course and will have near zero impact on an existential crisis but fractionally better than nothing.Best wishes, see you next year I hope.Malcolm On 23 Oct 2024, at 22:56, Jeffrey Allen Reimer <nmr@services.cnrs.fr> wrote: CAUTION: This e-mail originated outside the University of Southampton.Cherished colleagues: I am sending you this short note in response to Matthias’ editorial in the most recent AMPERE bulletin, particularly regarding the issue of travel and CO2 emissions. A round trip from SF to Europe cost the Arctic ~10 m^2 of ice (https://flightfree.org/flight-emissions-calculator). That strikes me as a heavy price on the planet for the deep satisfaction I gain from seeing my colleagues in person and hearing of their most recent works. It is not clear to me how to get to Europe without flying (it is possible by boat, but that mode of transportation exacts a severe environmental impact, albeit with lower CO2 emissions). I am vexed as to how to proceed. But for now, I will go outside of the USA only once per year. That means of all the great things that are happening with NMR/EPR in 2025, I will only be attending EUROMAR in Oulu. Attending the Alpine conference will have to wait for another year, and this makes me sad. Travel within Europe has the advantage of functioning rail systems (though my German colleagues bemoan the current stats of DB!!). In the USA there is no rail system, and travel from SF to the East coast costs 4.5 m^2 of ice. A trip to the Rocky Mountain Conference costs ~2 m^2. I ride a bicycle to work, my home is solar-powered with a battry system so I use very little grid energy. Nevertheless, this is no excuse for me to indulge in excess air travel. I share these things with you so as to inform your deliberations on how to advise our community on planning for conferences. Warmly, Jeff Jeffrey A. Reimer (he/him)Distinguished Professor of the Graduate School C. 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